View Poll Results: In favor of 2 run group format?

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  • Yes

    15 93.75%
  • No

    1 6.25%
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Thread: Proposed Two Run Group Format (Open for Discussion)

  1. #1
    2159ClassicRed's Avatar
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    Kurt Wong

    Default Proposed Two Run Group Format (Open for Discussion)

    This topic was brought up from last night's meeting.

    If you didn't attend, please do so next time to help the club move forward and possible chance of winning a $10 event discount! Remember every third Wednesday of the month at MB2 in Clovis's Sierra Vista Mall.

    This topic is open for discussion until the next meeting on March 15th. We will be bringing to the meeting all that is discussed here to make a decision.

    Proposal:

    A two run group format (Event Schedule):


    Run 1/Work 2 (Competition Runs)
    Run 2/Work 1 (Competition Runs)

    Break/Lunch (30 minutes)

    Run 1/Work 2 (Fun Runs)
    Run 2/Work 1 (Fun Runs)


    How does this work?:

    Example:

    I show up at the event (8am for me), register the car I'm running either from pre-reg online or walk up registration as usual. Car will get tech'd and inspected on grid and I'll walk the course, as usual. Based off the event schedule I will run first (Run 1) and work 2nd run group (Work 2). After running my 5 runs the best of the 5 will be used towards the event's results and season's points, which is why its called competition runs. We then switch over to the 2nd run group and I check into my worker station at the trailer as usual and work the 2nd run group. Second run group ends and we then event takes a half hour lunch break. Next is the best part if it isn't blazing hot nor pouring rain, you get to do the exact same format as the morning but these are considered fun runs and aren't used towards any of the event's results nor season's points. Depending on how many stay will determine how many fun runs we can get in by the end of the day. If the afternoon is too hot then everyone goes home and cools off. If the afternoon is soaking wet, then everyone goes home to stay warm and dry.

    What are the benefits of this format (Pros):

    • Efficiency. Based off our past 4 years of attendance averages: 47 (2016), 64 (2015), 63 (2014) and 54 (2013). Taking that into consideration and the amount of minimum workers needed to make a run group run smoothly (26) its wise to make a two run group format.
    • We will be able to reduce our times from not needing to do afternoon registration, tech inspection and driver's meeting.
    • You get better bang for buck as fun runs are part of your normal registration fee (no fun runs for those who don't register at the beginning of the event unless the event chair allows it)
    • No need to endure the afternoon heat in the summer, or afternoon rain during the winter seasons.
    • More workers means more help which means less people having to do two, three or four jobs at once. This also means more help for the novice drivers which means an investment for the club long term. If you haven't noticed it yet but the young blood are getting old and tired as well .
    • Required safety stewards would be reduced down to two only.
    • An equal playing field since we would all run in the morning so conditions won't drastically change like they do in the afternoon. Good for comparing times.
    • Overall just a better and more efficient format for our club size. When the attendance averages begin to increase then we can address if the club needs to revert back to the old 4 run group format or other possible means of efficiency.


    What are the drawbacks of this format (Cons):

    • Everyone who wants to run for points needs to show up in the morning just like if they were to show up to run the morning run group.
    • People who are used to running in the afternoon and only chose to run in the afternoon (aka WRG) will not be able to anymore.
    • Larger run groups than usual (but actually normal in size by autocross standards)
    • The need for everyone to be on time and to be efficient on the change over between groups. This also means more seat time as a benefit.


    So lets open this up for discussion but try not to go off on a tangent. Things can be adjusted to suit some needs but honestly this is really the best format for the clubs size. Event 1 showed how our club lacks workers per run group and that's one of the main points of going this route.
    Kurt
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  2. #2
    SmokeyBear's Avatar
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    Ron Branam

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    I think it is an excellent idea. Just need clarification on when WRG will run. I'm assuming second run group.
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  3. #3
    2015 Secretary Jim3142's Avatar
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    Jimmy Au-Yeung

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    I think it is an excellent idea. Just need clarification on when WRG will run. I'm assuming second run group.

    Since all of the classes would be available in the morning, there would be no need for WRG as you would need to be on site in the morning anyhow and you can't miss running with your class this way.
    Jimmy Au-Yeung
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  4. #4
    Fiatman's Avatar
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    Keith Bullock

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    Could the afternoon fun runs be done with a skeleton course crew? When Sacramento does their fun runs, they have a guy on a bike that rides out from the trailer and shags cones. Of course the announcer warns the afternoon drivers that a major cone killing spree is going to slow down the fun runs. It seems like it works for them. This would be more appealing to me. A couple of runs in the afternoon and I might want to split...........or maybe even catch a ride with a faster smoother driver in the other run group, because I know I need to improve on my smooth moves

  5. #5
    kaj's Avatar
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    jason hansen

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    An added benefit to having two, larger run groups is that you will have more time to make adjustments between runs. There have been times when run groups were so small, everyone was pretty much hot lapping and barely had time to adjust tire pressures LOL
    Last edited by kaj; 02-19-2017 at 11:25 AM.
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  6. #6

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    Leon Bennett

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    I think the main reason they have people on course is not for cones but for safety, but I do like your bike idea for cones haha! I think most people will want to have the option to run morning that way they can have their Saturday afternoon open if they chose.


    Just a thought I have often wondered if we could have maybe a few less stations but make the stations of higher importance? I would stand out at a station all day and never complain but I sure would like to bring a canopy for sunny/rainy days. I know concerns would be about the canopy getting hit but id rather hit that then a giant wooden sign any day =/

  7. #7
    2015 Secretary Jim3142's Avatar
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    Could the afternoon fun runs be done with a skeleton course crew? When Sacramento does their fun runs, they have a guy on a bike that rides out from the trailer and shags cones. Of course the announcer warns the afternoon drivers that a major cone killing spree is going to slow down the fun runs. It seems like it works for them. This would be more appealing to me. A couple of runs in the afternoon and I might want to split...........or maybe even catch a ride with a faster smoother driver in the other run group, because I know I need to improve on my smooth moves
    While it would be nice to not have to work fun runs, you would still need that "one person on a bike" to pick up cones that were displaced. When does that person get to do fun runs? Will people rotate in and out for that position? Plus, if you have someone who ends up going 11/10ths because "it's fun runs, who cares" and ends up wrecking a whole section, having only one person out there is going to slow things down a bit.


    I think the main reason they have people on course is not for cones but for safety, but I do like your bike idea for cones haha! I think most people will want to have the option to run morning that way they can have their Saturday afternoon open if they chose.


    Just a thought I have often wondered if we could have maybe a few less stations but make the stations of higher importance? I would stand out at a station all day and never complain but I sure would like to bring a canopy for sunny/rainy days. I know concerns would be about the canopy getting hit but id rather hit that then a giant wooden sign any day =/
    Yes, you can still have your afternoon free if you leave before fun runs, you just won't be able to sleep in and only take fun runs in the afternoon.

    As far as worker stations goes, it really depends on the course design. An umbrella or canopy is a good idea, AAS typically will have canopies at worker stations during the hot summer months when they're at Crows Landing.
    Jimmy Au-Yeung
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  8. #8
    2159ClassicRed's Avatar
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    All great points.

    On the biker person shagging cones. I would say it works if someone doesn't annihilate the course. Once someone does this it's not so easy, plus we would need someone who would be willing to do this and the comment of when does "this person" get to have their fun runs? Maybe if we had a rule of how many cones someone has on a given run to not exceed "X" amount or they lose all of their fun run privileges.
    Kurt
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  9. #9
    solo2_z06's Avatar
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    Gary McDaniel

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    My favorite run group has always been third. I can arrive at a "reasonable" time, watch some runs in group 2, more often group one, and have a fairly clean course. That being said, the afternoon groups have historically been smaller then the morning groups. Nothing we've done has been successful at changing that. For that reason I support the two run group proposal.

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  10. #10
    yosemitemtb's Avatar
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    I'll play the devil's advocate here, this format is not so nice for us out-of-towners. Every autocross would be a 5AM wakeup call for me, instead of just half of them. I've missed all of the Buttonwillow events because of the early start (as the schedule sits now, STX runs 4th there, I'm almost willing to bet money we will add an event and bump my class to the morning before then.) I really do look forward to the races I get to sleep in for.

    We've also seen that run group that seems like it will never end, be it timing issues, reruns, late starts, or endless reruns. I guess that would only mean a late lunch, though.

    My last concern, which I think is the most important for all of us has to do with the fairgrounds lot, course design and the grid. One thing I really don't like is a crowded grid area. A lot of times there are so many cars in each line, when we exit the course we have to stay in our cars to keep inching forward because we were near the front of our lane on the grid and the guys at the back are still waiting, or we sit in our cars before our runs waiting for the guys in the front to go out. We would need twice as many lanes (not to be confused with twice as long lanes) and the fairgrounds are challenged for space.

    I don't know if these items have been discussed yet, the one that I think really needs thought put into is the last one though. I'm waiting to vote in the poll until I hear others thoughts on this.
    Last edited by yosemitemtb; 02-19-2017 at 06:21 AM.
    Jerry Kell
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