No more sliding around in the car!!!

[50Cobra]

Thanks to Cliff Page for the great deal on an awesome seat.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/liftdchvy/Picture090.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/liftdchvy/Picture087.jpg

[dbratten]

Thanks to Cliff Page for the great deal on an awesome seat.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/liftdchvy/Picture090.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o105/liftdchvy/Picture087.jpg

Very nice, Charlie. Who's rails did you use? Did you go with a fixed mount or use your OEM sliders or power?

--Dan

[2159ClassicRed]

3rd booty for that seat :D.

[SmokeyBear]

Very nice Charlie. You'll be pleased when you find you no longer have to hold on. But - I don't see a harness? Yet to come? You'll definitely want a harness.

[50Cobra]

Dan, I used the Recaro sliders that were already on the seat and the mount that Peter use to use in his Vette. Its a very tight fit.

Kurt, yep 3rd owner! Still looks new though

Ron, I do plan on harnesses but need to fab up a harness mount. The aftermarket wants something like 400 bucks for one and thats not gonna work for me.

[dbratten]

Ron or others,

For years I ran my harness belts bolted to the floor. I know that now, in the Corvette and maybe others, it's recommended that the belts are attached more inline with the top of one's shoulders. Ok, maybe that's better but does it really matter?

I am like Charlie and not willing to pay $400 for a bar to mount a harness and I haven't taken the time to weld up my own. Would mounting the harness to the seat bolts (or others added) be ok?

--Dan

[2159ClassicRed]

I'd highly recommend Schroth's lineup, as that's all they do.

Rob should know more on the correct action to have the harness mounted, but it's either inline with the shoulders or at a small amount of angle south of your shoulders. Schroth had a large pamplet about it, but I tossed it, or maybe I still have it. I'll dig.........

[SmokeyBear]

Dan - 4-, 5-, or 6-point harness bolted to the floor? All points or just some points? Bolted to the stock seat belt locations? Obviously, I don't understand.

It's not just the Corvette & others, it's SOP, shoulder strap atachments should be shoulder height or a little below and not bolted to sheet metal. Of course, that's the ideal, not always the practical solution. Anything less than that is less than ideal.

My 6-point is:

Shoulder straps attached to the harness bar that came with the roll bar.
Lap straps attached to the OEM seat belt points. The logic being that's the strongest point by design.
Sub sraps attached to the front seat mounting bolts. Again, figuring that to be the strongest.

I did not install my own seat and harness; I hired Kevin at Arcane Automotive to do it. Good choice on my part.

[pgt3]

charlie, hardbar has some pictures of a mount for the belts that you use for your waist and sub belts. The bar for the shoulders use the upper mount for the stock seat belt. Hope that helps.

[50Cobra]

charlie, hardbar has some pictures of a mount for the belts that you use for your waist and sub belts. The bar for the shoulders use the upper mount for the stock seat belt. Hope that helps.

Thanks Peter but I do have the Hardbar lap belt mounts that you gave me! The only thing I dont have from your vette is the swaybars. I also installed that shifter and intake that you gave me as well. I do know where the Hardbar harness bar mounts to, and the reason why I dont have one yet is the $400 price tag.

[cap49]

Glad you like the seat Charlie but I just passed along the good deal Pete gave me last year. Those sway bars off of Pete's vette are now on my vette and at a really good price. Thanks to you Pete, Charlie and I are getting set up at less than wholesale prices. I think we owe you big time.

Other thoughts on mounting your belts. Looked at mounting a Schroth on the Mini and checked out some requirements of the SCCA and others. As I remember the shoulder belt shouldn't be mounted behind the seat at an angle of more than a few degrees below the tops of your shoulders. The reasoning was that in a roll over there was a possibility of compressing the spin enough to cause injury. If you bolt the harness to the back luggage area of the car I think you would be at a pretty extreme angle unless you attached way back in the compartment which wouldn't be possible. You do need that bar. Hope the Corvette Forum classified will have one for sale soon.

[dbratten]

Dan - 4-, 5-, or 6-point harness bolted to the floor? All points or just some points? Bolted to the stock seat belt locations? Obviously, I don't understand.

It's not just the Corvette & others, it's SOP, shoulder strap atachments should be shoulder height or a little below and not bolted to sheet metal. Of course, that's the ideal, not always the practical solution. Anything less than that is less than ideal.


Right. I know what's now recommended. But I remember from 30-40 years ago most of us bolted belts to the floor as we didn't have roll bars. Seat belts go to the OEM mounts if possible, sub belt(s) go under the seat on a fab-ed mount or through the floor or if not possible to the front of the seat. Harness (shoulder) belts ideally attach to a roll bar at or just below shoulder height. But lacking a roll bar we would attach the harness belts to the floor behind the seat -- usually through the floor with appropriate large flat washers. I just found a web page showing what I remember being used here: http://wescoperformance.stores.yahoo.net/4-point-seat-belt.html.

From what I've read the concern with attaching the harness belt to the floor is that it can cause spinal injuries if you're snugged in tight against the floor. I feel that I can accept that as a very remote possibility just as I did many years ago.

I guess I'm asking if you are aware of rules against mounting harness belts to the floor for HPDE purposes? I'm not aware of anything in autox rules checking them.

--Dan

[cap49]

"From what I've read the concern with attaching the harness belt to the floor is that it can cause spinal injuries if you're snugged in tight against the floor. I feel that I can accept that as a very remote possibility just as I did many years ago."


Check your PM

[SmokeyBear]

I guess I'm asking if you are aware of rules against mounting harness belts to the floor for HPDE purposes? I'm not aware of anything in autox rules checking them.Are you kidding? Nobody inspects at HPDEs, it's all honor system. The only hard-and-fast rule I've heard is roll bar for open cars. Anything else, quein saben?

[solo2_z06]

Shoulder belts to BK harness bar, lap and sub belts to bracket mounted off rear seat mounting bolts.

[Gary_44]

Are you kidding? Nobody inspects at HPDEs, it's all honor system.

Not trying to argue with the Chief Safety Steward here;)... but though NCRC is very lax on this, other clubs require pre-inspection at either a tech station or at the track. I failed NASA tech after my harness installs due to my sub belts attaching too far foreward.

Most people visualize a front impact when doing harness mounting, but wierd things happen in rear and side impacts. Floorpans usually buckle, seats can bend and deform. Most racing seats are lightweight and flexible. That's why alot of seats require a back brace, they found aluminum and some carbon fiber seats were folding like tacos or rocking backward when cars spun and hit something solid when going backward at high speed. Unless your super confident in your fab skills, I'd be very cautious building your own harness bar.

Also, as Cliff said, the lower you mount your shoulder belts from horizontal of shoulder level, the more it will compress your spine in most angles of impact if the seat bends. Standard is no lower than 20 degrees. That will fail tech at HPDE. I saw them pull a guy off of pre-grid once for that.

[SmokeyBear]

Sorry, I couldn't find a sarcasm icon. I was being a little sarcastic. I haven't run with NASA in years so don't remember yes or no on tech. inspection. Can't say it hasn't happened, but I can not remember an on-track tech. inspection. Not with any of the groups I've run, and that includes just about all of them.

[schrotacular]

I can say that NASA does a hybrid self tech for HPDE. You sign off that the car is good to go, but a tech official will also look over the car. I know they wouldn't let Myron run with his soft top up on his Miata.

[realseals13]

I've sat in that type of seat before (Sparco Pro2000's) and they feel very nice and hug your body real well. Gotta love Sparco:)

[rob.ok]

I would use the OEM 3 point. IMO the OEM belt is much safer when you still have things like a bomb directly in front of your face, no head and neck restraint, and no roll over protection. I feel that there is a greater possibility that the driver may get injured when; one or more of the safety aids that are designed to work in conjunction are missing, or improperly installed. The vector forces that are applied to the head when using shoulder straps are absolutely frightening.

As for harness mounting there is only one way to do it.
http://www.schrothracing.com/docs/Competition_Instructions.pdf

Best of luck,
-Rob

[2159ClassicRed]

^^Thanks Rob, just saw something I did wrong with my installation :mad:

[rob.ok]

^^Thanks Rob, just saw something I did wrong with my installation :mad:

No problem. Hope its an easy fix :)

[BryanH]

I agree with Rob. But for autocross, I don't see a problem with using a 4-point harness to hold you in the seat better. That's the only time I use mine.

Love the new avatar Kurt!

[50Cobra]

For right now the factory seat belt works just fine. Its a snug fit for me in a Pro 2000 as im 205LBS with a 34in waist. Guess I need to go on a diet:(